sentient heartless?

[lionsbarrage]

Originally Posted by DarkSoldier

Possessing a "physical form" can't be his downfall. He had to posess Riku's body in order to continue his goals as well as he needed the keyblade for the princesses and Riku was/is a keyblade master who was succumbing to darkness.

Him becoming at least attackable i see it as a downfall, unless he also wasy when he was ghostly, who knows. But that coupled with him misjudging KH was a huge mistake.

[Cerberus1616]

Originally Posted by arcaina200

now, for some reason, Ansem, Xehanort's heartless, was an intelligent heartless and had human form. I have no idea how this could happen, since even Sora turned into a heartless at one point, and he took a regular heartless form. Do you think there will be more heartless like Ansem in the third game?

Ansem was one of the four original keyblade wielders. That makes his heart stronger, and thus it can support more darkness. Also, an empty heart, for those who don't understand, would be something like a grey void. And the very fact that it has been able to remain empty means it is immune to light and dark, or simply oblivious. The empty heart theory makes sense, because there would be no conflicting emotions in the heartless, making it capable of thought. And as far as strength, you COULD say its too weak to do anything, or that it was quite a show of strength to posess someone, and Riku at this. btw Riku wasn't chosen to be posessed because his heart was weak, it's just that Sora and Mickey had too much light in their hearts. Sora's so naive, "Ansem" could posess him in a heartbeat if he could touch a heart with light in it.

[DarkSoldier]

Originally Posted by Cerberus1616

Ansem was one of the four original keyblade wielders. That makes him special. No, not special-ed, that would be way too funny. One minute, he's in class learning to read C-A-T, the next he's conquering worlds.

Are you referring to Xehanort on the whole "one minute, he's in class learning to read C-A-T"?

If that is who you are stating about then that is wrong. Xehanort, as a human Ansem stated,

Ansem Report

but later showed remarkable intellectual curiosity and readily absorbed my teachings, gaining deep wisdom. Any mental immaturity is surely due to his young age.
If I explore Xehanort's heart with psychological tests, I may be able to recall the past locked away within. My apprentice Even has also shown great interest in Xehanort's memories.
But is he really the right subject? Xehanort does indeed exhibit extraordinary talents...
Too extraordinary...
Perhaps they are even superhuman.

The reason why Xehanort's Heartless is special is undecided but a thought is that because he had the most darkness in his heart, or because he is Xehanort's heartless Xehanort "reflects" on him. The same way Xemnas is a special nobody because of Xehanort.

[Key of Valor]

lol, I think that intelligence comment about Xehanort was just a joke. No need to go citing Ansem Reports.

Besides, lol, Xehanort in a sense wasn't that smart. He sent Kairi into the sea of other worlds hoping she would locate the Keyblade wielder's home... In hindsight though, he should have put some kind of tracking device on Kairi's person so he could find out later which of the many worlds she ended up on. Looks like some evil villain didn't think that plan through.

And it's not really known why Xehanort's Heartless chose to possess Riku. I think some of the reasons he focused on Riku though involves the convenience that he could be tempted by darkness and manipulated to commit dark deeds. The key for Xehanort's Heartless in possessing Riku's vessel and power though stem from Riku's fatal mistake, this being that Riku opened his heart. Once he opened his heart, I'm sure it wasn't hard for Xehanort's Heartless to swoop in and seize the power in Riku's heart which he used to possess his vessel.

Riku opened his heart for darkness, and that granted Xehanort's Heartless a way in. However, I think Xehanort's Heartless could have been capable of doing the same with Sora, since Sora also foolishly opened his heart. On the other hand though, Xehanort's Heartless might not care to seize the power in Sora's heart, since unlike Riku whose heart thrived off the power of darkness, Sora's heart was sustained by the power of light. And we all know Xehanort's Heartless wasn't a fan of light.

[lionsbarrage]

Originally Posted by Cerberus1616

Ansem was one of the four original keyblade wielders. That makes his heart stronger, and thus it can support more darkness. Also, an empty heart, for those who don't understand, would be something like a grey void. And the very fact that it has been able to remain empty means it is immune to light and dark, or simply oblivious. The empty heart theory makes sense, because there would be no conflicting emotions in the heartless making it capable of thought. And as far as strength, you COULD say its too weak to do anything, or that it was quite a show of strength to posess someone, and Riku at this. btw Riku wasn't chosen to be posessed because his heart was weak, it's just that Sora and Mickey had too much light in their hearts. Sora's so naive, "Ansem" could posess him in a heartbeat if he could touch a heart with light in it.

Its all a matter of perspective on that subject of him having a strong heart. JUst cause he has one doesnt make him support it more. After all is said in done both Xehanort and Sora had strong hearts yet their difference in the heartless strength must then be based on a different scenario.

While there is debate on if there is really such a thing as a completely empty heart, since a heart based on what is isad wil lalways have light and darkness even if its small. This excludes the princesses of hearts. a heartless or anyone emotions dont really coincide with their thought process, its based mostly on instinct and the little intellect they already have. Much like compared to a wild animal just different instincts.

Riku in terms of being possesed i think was mostly planned from a certain point. Riku kept dwelving into darkness, while at the same time being strong a destined keyblade wielder, making him a suitable person to be possesed for the sake of Xehanort getting a phsical body, Riku's opening to darkness was the key. I dont think one can really increase the amount of light they carry, but as long as they believe in it and stuff darkness cant destroy or take them over

[Cerberus1616]

Originally Posted by lionsbarrage

Its all a matter of perspective on that subject of him having a strong heart. JUst cause he has one doesnt make him support it more. After all is said in done both Xehanort and Sora had strong hearts yet their difference in the heartless strength must then be based on a different scenario.

While there is debate on if there is really such a thing as a completely empty heart, since a heart based on what is isad wil lalways have light and darkness even if its small. This excludes the princesses of hearts. a heartless or anyone emotions dont really coincide with their thought process, its based mostly on instinct and the little intellect they already have. Much like compared to a wild animal just different instincts.

Riku in terms of being possesed i think was mostly planned from a certain point. Riku kept dwelving into darkness, while at the same time being strong a destined keyblade wielder, making him a suitable person to be possesed for the sake of Xehanort getting a phsical body, Riku's opening to darkness was the key. I dont think one can really increase the amount of light they carry, but as long as they believe in it and stuff darkness cant destroy or take them over

The stuff I said about a strong heart wasn't DIRECTLY related to why he became a sentient heartless. What I meant was that a strong heart can support more darkness. However, it doesn't have to. Sora's heart had so little darkness, since he CHOSE not to support it, that his heartless was a mere shadow. Heartless are hearts, but their power comes only from the darkness in their hearts. Sora had so much light that he was actually able to completely overpower the heartless instincts, take control, and become human again. While my darkness theory conflicts with the empty heart one, I found a way both can be true. Darkness=power=some intelligence. (have you noticed that strong heartless show signs of intelligence) Empty heart=no conflicting emotions=ability to think. The question is: WHICH ONE applies to Xehanort? And yeah, the the special thing was a joke. I realized it was a bit jacked up so I edited it out. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go find Taco.

[lionsbarrage]

Originally Posted by Cerberus1616

The stuff I said about a strong heart wasn't DIRECTLY related to why he became a sentient heartless. What I meant was that a strong heart can support more darkness. However, it doesn't have to. Sora's heart had so little darkness, since he CHOSE not to support it, that his heartless was a mere shadow. Heartless are hearts, but their power comes only from the darkness in their hearts. Sora had so much light that he was actually able to completely overpower the heartless instincts, take control, and become human again. While my darkness theory conflicts with the empty heart one, I found a way both can be true. Darkness=power=some intelligence. (have you noticed that strong heartless show signs of intelligence) Empty heart=no conflicting emotions=ability to think. The question is: WHICH ONE applies to Xehanort? And yeah, the the special thing was a joke. I realized it was a bit jacked up so I edited it out. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go find Taco.

Except that emotions dont play into ability to think or how intelligent something is.

Light is also a touchy subject. While Sora remained strong and true. He unlike even Riku was subsceptible to darkness. Why some are soo much more powerful maybe due to a stronger heart or may be due to somethign else. But that alone doesnt explain things such as being self aware since its such a rare event. Thats why we consider the way people become heartless.

[Key of Valor]

Originally Posted by Cerberus1616

Heartless are hearts, but their power comes only from the darkness in their hearts. Sora had so much light that he was actually able to completely overpower the heartless instincts, take control, and become human again. While my darkness theory conflicts with the empty heart one, I found a way both can be true. Darkness=power=some intelligence. (have you noticed that strong heartless show signs of intelligence) Empty heart=no conflicting emotions=ability to think. The question is: WHICH ONE applies to Xehanort?

I think most normal Heartless are produced from normal hearts that have an average amount of light and average amount of darkness. So when determining how a unique Heartless, one should look towards hearts with a unique amount of light and and a unique amount of darkness.

So basically, I think it's important examine the extreme cases. Hearts with...
1-A lot of light, hardly any darkness
2-Pure light, no darkness
3-hardly any light, a lot of darkness
4-hardly any light, hardly any darkness (practically empty)

Case 1: a heart with ample light and little darkness. It would seem that Sora had that type of heart. when he lost his heart, it became a practically normal Shadow, so it would seem that a heart with those qualities would not produce a special heartless such as Xehanort's Heartless.

Case 2: a heart pure of light. Kairi had this type of heart, and when it was released from here vessel two different times, neither occasion produced a Heartless since hearts with no darkness are incapable of producing Heartless.

As for Case 3 and Case 4, neither have necessarily been explored or demonstrated in other established situations, so both of these cases seem to be possible scenarios to explain how Xehanort produced a special heartless. It's true that neither extreme case needs to contradict the other.